Florida Carry

Norman v. State

Norman v. State (FL) is the case of a law abiding concealed carry licensee who was arrested and prosecuted in Fort Pierce, FL for violating Florida nearly complete ban on Open Carry after his otherwise lawfully carried handgun unknowingly became unconcealed while walking down the street the first time he carried outside his home with his new Florida concealed carry license.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-qKeJ6jd2Ak

A St. Lucie County Judge denied all constitutional arguments to dismiss the case against Dale Norman. While the court made findings that the statute is overbroad and is facially vague, the court still issued a conviction on a “as applied” standard.

The County Court judge also did not fully consider the Second Amendment or the Right to Bear Arms under the Florida Constitution; denying those motions to dismiss the case because the question of the right to bear arms "is for someone above the level of this court." 

The Second Amendment question is fairly straightforward; Florida courts have clearly found that the carrying of a concealed firearm is a privilege, subject even to being banned completely, not a right protected by the constitution. Florida appellate courts have held that the “Retroactive application of (new Florida Statutes), is not unconstitutional because a license to carry a concealed weapon or firearm is a privilege and not a vested right.” Crane v. Department of State, 547 So. 2d 266 (Fla. 1989).

The Florida Legislature and Supreme Court have long recognized that there is a right to bear arms outside of the home. The “privilege of a license to carry a concealed weapon or firearm” recognized in Crane cannot replace, or substitute for, the fundamental right guaranteed by the U.S. and Florida Constitutions.

The County Court did however certify the constitutional questions directly to the 4th District Court of Appeals as questions of great public importance.  The DCA has accepted jurisdiction.

 

Updates:

The Florida Attorney General's Office filed an extraordinary motion with the Florida Supreme Court attempting to prohibit the 4th District Court of Appeals from hearing the case. Mr. Norman is represented by Florida Carry's Lead Counsel, attorney Eric J. Friday, who filed a motion to strike or deny the Attorney General's baseless motion. On April 19th, 2013 the Florida Supreme Court denied the AG's attempt to derail the appeal to the 4th DCA.  

After initially deciding in March 2014 not to hear oral arguments, in August 2014 the 4th DCA issued an order to hold oral arguments.

Oral arguments were held on November 6th, 2014 at 10am.  Video at: Oral Argument Video

 

Norman's Initial Brief on the merits of the appeal was filed 4/22/2013.
The Attorney General, after multiple extensions, filed the State's Answer Brief 10/9/2013.
Norman's Reply Brief was Flied on 10/28/2013.
Oral Arguments were held 11/06/2014 at 10am. Oral Argument Video

On 02/18/2015 the 4th DCA ruled against Dale Norman:

"While the right to carry outside the home has been established by the highest court of the land, no decision interpreting the Second Amendment can be cited for the proposition that a state must allow for one form of carry over another. Because the Legislature has the right to enact laws regarding the manner in which arms can be borne, it is likewise permitted to forbid the carrying of arms in a particular place or manner which, in its collective judgment, is likely to lead to breaches of the peace, see Carlton v. State, 58 So. 486, 488-89 (Fla. 1912), provided a reasonable alternative manner of carry is provided."

Motion for Rehearing is pending.

Florida Carry is providing for the continued defense of Dale Norman and seeks to clarify what the right to bear arms is in Florida. Please help us win this fight for your RIGHT to Bear Arms by joining Florida Carry or donating to our cause.


Docket Overview: Lower Court Case Number: 2012-MM-000530-A

St. Lucie County Clerk of the County Court


Lower Court Filings:

06/08/2012 Motion to Dismiss - OC Ban Unconstitutionally Vague

06/08/2012 Motion to Dismiss - OC Ban Violates Second Amendment and Art. 1 Sec. 8 FL Constitution

06/08/2012 Motion to Dismiss - OB Ban Unconstitutionally Proscribes Action without Mens Rea

08/14/2012 Lower Court's Written Judgement and Sentence - Written Judgement and Sentence of 6/10/2014 nunc pro tunc to 8/14/2012

08/22/2012 Lower Court's Written Order on Motions to Dismiss - Certified constitutional questions directly to the Florida 4th District Court of Appeals as matters of great public importance.

08/29/2012 Notice of Appeal

06/18/2014 Motion to Correct Judgement and Sentence issued 6/10/2014 nunc pro tunc to 8/14/2012


Docket Overview: Appellate Court Case Number:  4D12-3525
Florida Fourth District Court of Appeal Docket


Appellate Court Filings on Jurisdiction:

Date Docketed
Description
Date Due
Filed By
Notes
09/27/2012 Notice of Appeal Filed   Ashley Minton , Appellant  
09/27/2012 Determination of Indigent Status      
10/05/2012 Order for brief memorandum on 9.160 case 10/15/2012   **VACATED 12/04/12**
10/15/2012 Notice of Appearance   Eric J. Friday 797901, Appellant  
10/15/2012 Memorandum Brief   Eric J. Friday 797901, Appellant  
10/22/2012 Motion To Compel   Attorney General-W.P.B. AG01, Appellee (M) PRODUCTION OF AN APPENDIX 
10/22/2012 Motion for Extension of Time to File Response   Attorney General-W.P.B. AG01, Appellee (M) TO MEMORANDUM BRIEF
11/07/2012 State's First Motion To Dismiss   Attorney General-W.P.B. AG01, Appellee  
12/04/2012 ORD-Vacated     10/05/2012 ORDER
12/04/2012 Order to Show Cause-Appeal Dismissal 12/14/2012   10 DAYS
12/17/2012 RESPONSE TO ORDER TO SHOW CAUSE   Eric J. Friday 797901, Appellant  
01/08/2013 ORD-Denying Aplee's Motion to Dismiss      
01/08/2013 ORD-Moot     (APPELLEE'S 10/22/12 MOTION TO COMPEL, ETC.)
01/10/2013 State's Motion for Clarification   Attorney General-W.P.B. AG01, Appellee OF 12/4/12 AND 1/8/13 ORDERS
01/24/2013 Miscellaneous Entry     COPY OF PETITION FOR WRIT OF PROHIBITION AND APPENDIX FILED IN SUPREME COURT. AE Attorney General-W.P.B. AG01
01/29/2013 ORD-Granting Clarification     THIS COURT HAS ACCEPTED JURISDICTION IN THIS CASE, AND APPELLEE HAS NO FURTHER OBLIGATION TO ADDRESS THE JURISDICTIONAL ISSUE.
01/31/2013 Court Reporter Acknowledgment Letter      
02/19/2013 Ack. Receipt from Supreme Court     SC13-212
04/22/2013 Supreme Court Disposition     SC13-212 DENIED

Docket Overview: Florida Supreme Court Case Number:  SC13-212
Florida Supreme Court Docket


Supreme Court Filings on Jursidiction:

Date Docketed
Description
Date Due
Filed By
Notes
01/30/2013 State's Petition for Writ of Prohibition   State Of Florida STATE BY: PT Cynthia Laine Comras 151319 Attorney General - W.P.B.  
02/07/2013 Motion to Strike or Dismiss Petition for Writ of Prohibition   Dale Lee Norman BY: RS Eric J. Friday 797901  
04/19/2013 Final Disposition - Writ Denied     The petition for writ of prohibition is hereby denied because petitioner has failed to demonstrate that a lower court is attempting to act in excess of its jurisdiction. See Mandico v. Taos Constr., Inc., 605 So. 2d 850 (Fla. 1992); English v. McCrary, 348 So. 2d 293 (Fla. 1977). Any motions or other requests for relief are hereby denied.

Docket Overview: Appellate Court Case Number:  4D12-3525
Florida Fourth District Court of Appeal Docket


Appellate Court Filings on Merits:

Date Docketed
Description
Date Due
Filed By
Notes
03/06/2013 Received Records     FOUR (4) VOLUMES (WITH CD-ROM)
04/09/2013 Mot. for Extension of time to file Initial Brief   Eric J. Friday 0797901, Appellant  
04/11/2013 Order Granting EOT for Initial Brief 04/22/2013   ORDERED that appellant's motion filed April 9, 2013, for extension of time is granted, and appellant shall serve the initial brief on or before April 22, 2013. In addition, if the initial brief is not served within the time provided for in this order the above-styled case may be subject to dismissal or the court in its discretion may impose other sanctions.
04/22/2013 Supreme Court Disposition     SC13-212 DENIED
04/22/2013 Initial Brief on Merits   Eric J. Friday 0797901, Appellant  

05/17/2013
06/10/2013
07/19/2013
08/22/2013

Requests for Extension - Answer Brief 10/09/2013 Florida Attorney General

Extension 30 DAYS TO 06/21/13
Extension 30 DAYS TO 07/24/13
Extension 30 DAYS TO 08/23/13
Requested 60 DAYS - Objection Filed
Extension 30 DAYS TO 10/9/13* 

* "... appellee shall serve the answer brief within thirty (30) days from the date of the entry of this order [9/9/2013].
In addition, appellee is notified that the failure to serve the brief within the time provided herein may foreclose appellee's right to file a brief or otherwise participate in this appeal."

10/09/2013 State's Answer Brief   Attorney General - W.P.B., Appellee  
10/28/2013 Appellant's Reply Brief 11/04/2013 Eric J. Friday 0797901, Appellant  
01/02/2014 Appellant's Notice of Supplemental Authority   Eric J. Friday 0797901, Appellant Florida Carry v. UNF, en banc (Fla. 1st DCA 2013) and Art I Sec. 2 FL Constitution
03/03/2014 Oral Argument Declined
Withdrawn 08/12/2014
  Eric J. Friday 0797901, Appellant BY ORDER OF THE COURT: After reviewing the briefs, the court, pursuant to Florida Rule of Appellate Procedure 9.320, has dispensed with oral argument. The case will be submitted to a conference by a panel of the court.
05/13/2014 Jurisdiction Relinquished

Case Submitted for Written Version of Lower Court Ruling.
06/12/2014   ORDERED sua sponte that jurisdiction is hereby relinquished to the trial court for the purpose of rendering a written judgment and sentence in accordance with its oral pronouncement of August 14, 2012; further ORDERED that the trial court shall file with this court said written judgment and sentence within thirty (30) days from the date of this order.
06/12/2014 Notice of Written Judgement and Sentence by (Lower) Trial Court   Hon. Cliff Barnes JUDGMENT AND SENTENCE
THIS CAUSE having come before this Court upon trial by jury, the jury having found Defendant guilty, the Court hereby WITHHOLDS JUDGMENT OF CONVICTION and assesses a fine of $300.00 plus court costs of $223.00, cost of investigation of $25.00 and $50.00 cost of prosecution. DONE AND ORDERED this 10th day of June, 2014, at Fort Pierce, St. Lucie County, Florida, nunc pro tunc (retroactive) to August 14,2012.
06/17/2014 Second Motion to Dismiss   Attorney General - W.P.B. AG01, Appellee  
06/18/2014 Response to Second Motion to Dismiss   Eric J. Friday 0797901, Appellant  
07/09/2014 Motion to Withdraw the Second Motion to Dismiss   Carolyn Snurkowski - Assistant Deputy Attorney General, Appellee  
07/21/2014 Order on Motion to Withdraw     ORDERED that the appellee's amended motion filed July 9, 2014, to withdraw appellee's second motion to dismiss appeal for lack of jurisdiction hereby granted; further, ORDERED that appellee's second motion to dismiss appeal for lack of jurisdiction filed June 17, 2014, is hereby determined to be moot.
08/12/2014 Order Dispensing With Oral Argument Withdrawn     ORDERED that this court's March 3, 2014, order dispensing with oral argument is hereby withdrawn.
08/12/2014 Order Setting Oral Argument 11/06/2014   BY ORDER OF THE COURT:
Oral Argument scheduled for October 8, 2014 has been cancelled.
This case is now set for Oral Argument for Thursday, November 6, 2014, at 10:00 A.M., 20 minutes per side
11/03/2014 Appellant's Notice of Supplemental Authority   Eric J. Friday 0797901, Appellant Following Heller's methodology leads to an embrace of open carry and a rejection of both a strong public safety-oriented limitation on the right to carry and the alternative outlet theory.
Yale Law Rev. - Jonathan Meltzer, Open Carry for All: Heller and Our Nineteenth-Century Second Amendment, 123 Yale L.J. 1486(2014) (2014).
11/06/2014 Oral Argument Video     https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k7haFzE7HAM
01/09/2015 Appellant's Notice of Supplemental Authority   Eric J. Friday 0797901, Appellant Central to narrow tailoring is the fit between the government's objective and its means. A regulation flunks narrow tailoring by being "overbroad" if "[the proffered] interests could be achieved by narrower ordinances that burde[n] [the right] to a far lesser degree." ... The Fourth Circuit noted last year that "no circuit has accepted an overbreadth challenge in the Second Amendment context," but what it meant, in context, was that "[a] person to whom a statute properly applies can't obtain relief based on arguments that a differently situated person might present."  Overbreadth, however, can and must be considered as part of strict scrutiny's narrow-tailoring requirement.
Tyler v. Hillsdale County Sheriff’s Dep’t. 2014 U.S. App. LEXIS 23929 (6th Cir. 2014)
08/18/2015 4th DCA Order     While the right to carry outside the home has been established by the highest court of the land, no decision interpreting the Second Amendment can be cited for the proposition that a state must allow for one form of carry over another. Because the Legislature has the right to enact laws regarding the manner in which arms can be borne, it is likewise permitted to forbid the carrying of arms in a particular place or manner which, in its collective judgment, is likely to lead to breaches of the peace, see Carlton v. State, 58 So. 486, 488-89 (Fla. 1912), provided a reasonable alternative manner of carry is provided.
Pending Motion for Rehearing 03/05/2015  Eric J. Friday 0797901, Appellant  

Share